"Sliders"? 103A, "stones", and "elite" or "competition" uber-hard wheels.
Do any actually experienced skaters like these wheels? There are several reasons I'm asking. First, I see them a lot on "good" skaters but never on great ones. I've noticed the "sliders" I've talked to can never skate into spins without falling due to lack of grip as they try to convert their linear motion into angular motion. Thus I remain pretty unconvinced that these ultra-hard wheels do anything but come in pretty gemtones and come in small enough sizes to please the Stacy Adams skate-shoe crowd. However, there is one rink with a super grippy floor surface that makes me think perhaps I simply haven't seen enough in the way of rink surfaces. Did I just miss all the talented smart skaters who threw away their surface appropriate wheels and went "sliding"?
Comments
First of all, I wouldn't even begin to compare a Bones 103a to the small fiber type slide wheels.
I'm a competitive artistic skater in dance, freestyle, figures, and many people like to use the 101 and 103a bones wheels for compulsory dance (which requires grip to push, some slide to do one foot turns). Just last week I tested the bones 101s and they were actually more grippy than my Roll-Line Ice 95a and 97a wheels on both pushing and sliding one foot turns.
If you tried to do some type of detroit style sideways slide with the 103s or any artistic skating wheel outside of something like a Boiani Star HD-84 or Giotto 61D FIGURE SPECIFIC wheel you'll absolutely kill yourself and not slide at all.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for that. I'm glad to know that there is a reason Rollerbones seems to concentrate so hard on the wheels I personally do not find ideal.
I actually have had a set of the Giotto 61D's you mention on my Roll Line / Edea setup. I have never used them on a rink surface since that would appear somewhat suicidal. I'm not even sure I could generate enough friction to even push off. However, on some types of sport court surfaces they are nearly perfect. I keep them around for that reason.
Yeah I've heard that anything over 100A on that scale of measurement is not actually over 100A, just something Bones says for marketing. Our rink surface is a relatively slippery polished concrete, and they work alright but I prefer a checkerboarded set of Komplex Bolero HD-40/HD-43 or 45 for the international dances which require deeper edges and better roll through turns.
Those 63mm 61D Giottos are only for use in long compulsory figures, and I wouldn't use them in loops though it's possible on a tight wood floor with a fresh coat. You could potentially use the 47 or 49D for dance but they aren't really intended to be dance wheels. I use a range of checkerboarded 57mm 47-53D Giottos for freestyle along with a half set of the Fox wheels as the spin pivot grip wheels if it's extremely slick.
For reference I'm doing all the sohpomore A/loops and sophomore A/world class long figures.
For dance I'm at junior/senior level transitioning to world class.
Freestyle at double axel/working on triples along with all basic spin positions working on class A stuff like heels and broken ankle.
Funny you should mention that about the Shore A scale only actually going to 100. My father in law recently gave me an original Shore A Durameter. He still had the case for it which came with a set of two calibration pads. I tested all my wheels and had a good laugh at how far off the manufacturer ratings were. I suppose my meter could be bad, but it's nailing the measurements on the calibration pads, so I really doubt it. The big "Shore" logo on the front of my meter kinda says I'm right and they are wrong given that Shore invented the scale in the first place. You are totally right, too. It only goes up to 100. I'll have to take a picture of it for fun. The hardest wheels were the farthest off. I had 103A Rollerbones Elite's coming in at 97A and so forth.
Congrats on your skill level. I am not competitive but hang out with enough skaters that are to know the progression. I do a little figure, but mostly dance. I am always amazed at how skilled and technical the Freestyle skaters can get. I can land some of their jumps, but they have so many spin positions and entry/exit methods it makes my head spin. I doubt I could even name them all much less do half of them.
You must have a great deal of experience dealing with a wide range of skating surfaces. It's clear you know your competitive wheels and surfaces and have some hard-fought opinions from your experience. I've never tried any Bolero wheels, but I have tried about 1/3rd of the Roll Line wheels. They make so many specialized edge-cases I think I probably just haven't seen the kind of surfaces someone like you is faced with.
Yeah those Bones 101 or 103a wheels feel softer so I'm glad they actually are!
I've read a good amount of forum discussions about wheel hardness on the old skatelog forum and many of the more technical people measuring durometer say the same, that the manufacturer rating is way off. I'm guessing it's probably off a bit on the Roll-Line wheels as well, though they seem relatively consistent to me.
I would definitely recommend trying some of the Komplex dance wheels. I think I prefer their compound for dance over the Roll-Line Ice urethane. Here in the US it seems to be about 50/50 of people using Roll-Line vs Komplex at nationals.
In terms of surfaces I've had an awful time trying to find wheels that works for our concrete rink and also for the wood floors of varying tightness at competitions. The humidity and weather overall also seems to affect grip a lot. Using the same wheels last week at 55% humidity, I was rotating my double axel pretty well, then this week at about 20% the floor feels completely different and really affects my skating.
I'll try to take some pictures of my wheels and durameter readings. I wish I could test the Roll Line but most of the ones I own are D-scale so my little meter wouldn't work since it's purely mechanical and only shows the Shore A scale.
I am curious about the Komplex D'Alisera wheels from Komplex. They are very attractive to my eye. I will have to order a set and try them out.
There is a club I skate at (well, I did before 2020 ruined it) which has a semi-smooth concrete skate/dance floor on one side of the club, a second large dance floor on the opposite site of the club which is a plastic coated wood suspended up about 3-foot off the ground (weird, huh?). So, if one goes there, finding the right wheel is difficult because of the big difference in the surfaces (and the difference in flex). The club lets you dance or skate in both places and there are good reasons to go back and forth (getting drinks etc..). I use Mota Toxic 59Hx38W 93A there and that's the best so far. This despite the fact that my Roll Line Fluido wheels work great on the plastic and the Giotto works excellent on the concrete.
I also very much agree with your statement about humidity. I've noticed that too! I noticed it really strong one day while it was raining outside the rink. Then I paid closer attention and was like "Yep, it's the moisture again."
I have no idea about the Komplex D'Alisera wheels, I see they're red (look just like the Komplex GT, might be an older version of them or something) and look nice but I haven't tested them or know anyone who has. When I see people using Komplex for freestyle it's usually the Angel 57mm. I talked to the Komplex rep at nationals and the Angel (for figures 63mm), Bolero (dance 63mm) and Angel (for freestyle but 57mm instead of 63), are all the exact same wheel. The hub and compound is the same, just that the sizes are different for the freestyle wheels (smaller 57mm) and the Angel for figures is just available in a harder compound.